David, I agree, they could have contacted you. I would contact them and
ask. Apologize, say you didn't know it wasn't allowed (even though you did
know!) and ask if they did at least keep your cherished log book. Don't
mention that there are others around.

RIFamily

-----Original Message-----
From: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of team_new_hampshire
Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2007 10:48 PM
To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [LbNA] Why couldn't they be nicer about it?


i had just received a note from someone whom went searching for one
of my boxes in a state park and had informed me that while searching
for this box, she was told by a ranger that my box was thrown away.
she was also told that the box had to reason being in its location.
at what point should this not bother me? i personally understand that
if something shouldn't be somewhere, it shouldn't be somewhere. but
not to inform the person responsible for the box and just throw it
out it just outragous. if it wasn't for the fact that there are many
other boxes planted in the not distant areas, i would give this
person a piece of my mind.

i might sound a bit harsh, but if we have to pay to park in areas of
the state park to view what is already in our back yards. my planting
of a box, possibly brings money to the state park. maybe this ranger
or any other ranger doesn't realize the positive impact of
letterboxing to any and/or all regions.

another reason to rehid boxes better than you found them.
david (team new hampshire)
http://teamnewhampshire.blogspot.com




--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
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12:19 PM


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

It's your responsibility for knowing whether or not a box is allowed where
you've planted it. If it's not allowed and you plant anyway, you take your
chances. Why shouldn't they just throw it out? YOU were rude in putting it
there either before finding out it was allowed or while knowing the rules
but just defying them, but THEY have to play nice nice?

Rather than ranting & raving about park management who might see as many
negatives to letterboxing and geocaching in the parks as you see
positives...........plus holding them somehow responsible for contacting you
in some way.............

MY first question would have been..............

How and why did the lady come to be informed by a park ranger that the box
had been tossed? It's just that I'm having a bit of a hard time trying to
picture any sort of discretion on her part. If I were the placer, THAT'S
what would bother me...... not the fact that the ranger tossed the box. The
park ranger was doing their job. Sounds to me as if the letterboxer might
have fallen down on the job.

~~ Mosey ~~

-----Original Message-----
From: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of team_new_hampshire
Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2007 9:48 PM
To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [LbNA] Why couldn't they be nicer about it?


i had just received a note from someone whom went searching for one
of my boxes in a state park and had informed me that while searching
for this box, she was told by a ranger that my box was thrown away.
she was also told that the box had to reason being in its location.
at what point should this not bother me? i personally understand that
if something shouldn't be somewhere, it shouldn't be somewhere. but
not to inform the person responsible for the box and just throw it
out it just outragous. if it wasn't for the fact that there are many
other boxes planted in the not distant areas, i would give this
person a piece of my mind.

i might sound a bit harsh, but if we have to pay to park in areas of
the state park to view what is already in our back yards. my planting
of a box, possibly brings money to the state park. maybe this ranger
or any other ranger doesn't realize the positive impact of
letterboxing to any and/or all regions.

another reason to rehid boxes better than you found them.
david (team new hampshire)
http://teamnewhampshire.blogspot.com





Yahoo! Groups Links

I was under the impression that it was not illegal to place letterboxes in state parks, is this not the case? I thought it was conservation lands that it was big no, no. I 'm not trying to start anything here just trying to get some clarification. I think the original poster is under the impression that letterboxes are allowed in state parks but maybe the area they placed their letterbox was not considered kosher by the park rangers for safety reasons or otherwise.

It's funny the ranger was so against the letterbox, my friends and I met a park ranger who is also a letterboxer a few weeks ago, we met him because we were trying to non-chalantley stamp a letterbox and he stopped to ask us where we found it; we thought we were in trouble at first we told him were we found it but then he told us he had placed a letterbox near the same area. He then proceeded to tell us about the other letterboxes that were in the park. He gave us one of the park stickers as an exchange. We were following a series trail, it wouldn't surprise me if he was the placer and was excited to see people finding them.

The best thing I can say to the original poster is to learn from the experience and place a new box some where else.
-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "xxxxxxxx"
> It's your responsibility for knowing whether or not a box is allowed where
> you've planted it. If it's not allowed and you plant anyway, you take your
> chances. Why shouldn't they just throw it out? YOU were rude in putting it
> there either before finding out it was allowed or while knowing the rules
> but just defying them, but THEY have to play nice nice?
>
> Rather than ranting & raving about park management who might see as many
> negatives to letterboxing and geocaching in the parks as you see
> positives...........plus holding them somehow responsible for contacting you
> in some way.............
>
> MY first question would have been..............
>
> How and why did the lady come to be informed by a park ranger that the box
> had been tossed? It's just that I'm having a bit of a hard time trying to
> picture any sort of discretion on her part. If I were the placer, THAT'S
> what would bother me...... not the fact that the ranger tossed the box. The
> park ranger was doing their job. Sounds to me as if the letterboxer might
> have fallen down on the job.
>
> ~~ Mosey ~~
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of team_new_hampshire
> Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2007 9:48 PM
> To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [LbNA] Why couldn't they be nicer about it?
>
>
> i had just received a note from someone whom went searching for one
> of my boxes in a state park and had informed me that while searching
> for this box, she was told by a ranger that my box was thrown away.
> she was also told that the box had to reason being in its location.
> at what point should this not bother me? i personally understand that
> if something shouldn't be somewhere, it shouldn't be somewhere. but
> not to inform the person responsible for the box and just throw it
> out it just outragous. if it wasn't for the fact that there are many
> other boxes planted in the not distant areas, i would give this
> person a piece of my mind.
>
> i might sound a bit harsh, but if we have to pay to park in areas of
> the state park to view what is already in our back yards. my planting
> of a box, possibly brings money to the state park. maybe this ranger
> or any other ranger doesn't realize the positive impact of
> letterboxing to any and/or all regions.
>
> another reason to rehid boxes better than you found them.
> david (team new hampshire)
> http://teamnewhampshire.blogspot.com
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I don't know about state parks anywhere else but Texas, but I do know that
in Texas our state park system is under financial seige, with closures and
cutbacks looming over every park. Many parks are left unstaffed or
minimally staffed on weekdays. I would imagine Texas isn't alone in this
situation, especially since Texas has always prided itself on its park
system, so that our parks have been protected from financial considerations
long after they became a problem.

When parks are struggling to have enough staff to clean bathrooms, how can I
expect them to call me and ask me about my box, especially if it wasn't
supposed to be there in the first place? As Mosey said, it IS our
responsibility to know what is allowed and what isn't, and it certainly
isn't the park's responsibility to educate me in that respect. I always
find it refreshing when I hear that a ranger contacts a letterboxer to offer
to return the box or help them re-plant it in a better place, and that
happens quite often, but it is a nicety not a necessity.

Now I do agree with David's point that letterboxers create park traffic
which in turn generates funds and supports leaving parks open. We have a
few forward-thinking park rangers around here that recognize that fact and
generously work with letterboxers and geocachers, but our state also has
state park regulations that came about because some treasure-hunters were
irresponsible in their activities. Clearly we can be a problem and a
blessing all wrapped into one package.

I would like to make the point that we as letterboxers should be diligent to
pay our fees and sign guest books, and to offer service to our parks, and to
give feedback in hopes we can demonstrate our desire to be responsible and
supportive park users. Hopefully by supporting them, they will see their
way clear to support us.

--
Barefoot Lucy
"It's not about footwear, it's about philosophy"


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

When reading this message, this all sounds familiar to me. I am not sure if this is the exact box I was looking for or not, as the one I was looking for was listed as an orpan. (I did email the placer of my findings, which is what makes me think this is the box that team-new-hampshire is referring to). I was recently looking for a box in a national park, but found nothing. The next day we were in a location where there were employees from the park as well as other organizations for a nature education program. There happened to be a letterbox hidden in the area of this program. The park employee had a discussion with another in my party about the park, nature, conservation, etc. They were standing in a location where they could see footprints in the sand to the letterbox hidden at this location, which led to conversation, initiated by the park employee, about letterboxing. He stated that they are fighting letterboxes in the national park because it is creating trails
being cut into nature areas where there shouldn't be trails. He did say that it may come to a point where placers will need to ask permission to place the boxes, then they can control the location. This person never said that he got rid of the box, but I think we can deduct that "we are fighting letterboxes in the park" + a letterbox that can't be found could possibly equal that it was removed on purpose.

No park employees saw us looking for the letterbox in the national park. The information that I learned came from a chance conversation with the park employee in a different location. We did use discretion in our searches. If this box and the box I was searching for are actually two different boxes, then this just brings to light a trend that is developing.

All said, it was a great day and we had fun looking for the box!!


A person without a sense of humor is like a wagon without springs - jolted by every pebble in the road. ~Henry Ward Beecher





---------------------------------
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(and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> MY first question would have been..............
>
> How and why did the lady come to be informed by a park ranger that
the box
> had been tossed?


That was my first question when I read about it.

I once had a letterboxer send me a note saying that they were having
trouble finding one of my boxes, but it "turned out ok" because the
groundskeeper told them where it was! I was mortified. Did they ask him
where it was? Or did he see them poking around in the bushes? How did
he know it was there? How many other letterboxers had he watched poking
around? (Luckily he didn't seem to care about it being there. It stayed
for about another 8 months before I was asked, by the owner of the
property, to come remove it.)

This completely depends on the state parks in question. NC requires
a special use permit which costs $30, but it is at the discretion of
each park manager as to whether that is a one-time fee, an every-
three-months fee or something in between. It's also up to the
manager whether the boxes can be permitted at all in a given park.
NC State Forests OTOH turn a blind eye seemingly. Some conservation
lands allow them; some don't.

Other state park groups seem to welcome them. Some places hunt them
down like rabid dogs and destroy them.

National Parks are a no-no, as far as planting. Definite rules
against it and they could levy fines against you for it.

Basically it is the planter's job to know where it's allowed and
where not. If the planter chooses to ignore the rules, be prepared
to possibly lose a box.

Knit Wit
Asheville, NC

--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, barrudaki@... wrote:
>
> I was under the impression that it was not illegal to place
letterboxes in state parks, is this not the case? I thought it was
conservation lands that it was big no, no. I 'm not trying to start
anything here just trying to get some clarification. I think the
original poster is under the impression that letterboxes are allowed
in state parks but maybe the area they placed their letterbox was
not considered kosher by the park rangers for safety reasons or
otherwise.
>